Wiki 24:Articles for deletion/Unnamed conspirators (Day 5) talk
Redirected? The page I created for the two unnamed Graem conspirators was blanked and redirected to Unnamed terrorists, one of the categories within the Unnamed characters category. I'd like to contest this for three reasons: # The two men do not have any spoken lines (as mentioned in the original article), and yet the only criterion for being in the Unnamed characters category is: "unnamed characters with spoken lines seen on 24." # When the redirect was made by Vinny2, there was no effort to save the actual information. The page was blanked and then redirected without regard to the article itself. # These two men are not terrorists. Was this done in error (understandable), or was the intent to actually delete the page (ouch!)? --Blue Rook 00:18, 20 April 2007 (UTC) :Hi. I made the redirect becuase I thought the page was full of speculation. No information is specifically said about them, they are never actually spoken to directly, and as you mentioned, they never actually speak. They're just...there. :I decided not to save the information becuase since they don't speak, they don't belong in the category. For the last point, I too am well aware that they are not terrorists, but they didn't fit well in any of the categories, so I picked terrorists. :I still stand by my original decision, but will refrain from recreating the redirect until we get more feedback on the situation. --Vinny2 01:09, 20 April 2007 (UTC) :: I agree with Vinny2. Since the characters have no lines, no names, and nothing distinctive about them other than their actual physical appearance, I see no need to give them their own page. The actors playing them aren't even known. Clearly they're implicit in the conspiracy, but I personally think it'd be sufficient to include all of this information elsewhere (Graem's page, nerve gas conspiracy page, etc.) I agree, they're not terrorists, so "Unnamed terrorists" isn't the right place for this info either, but like Vinny2 says, there's really no specific information about them other than they exist, so it's hard to justify giving them their own page, since it's composed solely of information about other people. --Proudhug 01:55, 20 April 2007 (UTC) :: Alrighty. I typed the whole thing below while Proudhug responded, so here it is, wouldn't want to waste the effort... it might change some minds? if not, where do we go from here? :: I'll isolate each of your points: :: A. Speculation: None of it speculation. Here is each bit of info in the article, numbered; my support that it is not speculation. ::: 1. They are conspirators of the highest level; from the nature of Graem's speech to them, it is clear that they are conspirators. And they are in the room with Graem, not even the President, who was closer to the heat than they were, situating their involvement at least at the highest level. ::: 2. They began their work 18 months prior to Day 5; this is taken almost verbatim from Graem's address to them. ::: 3. They're involved in BXJ; If this is speculation I claim Occam's razor on this one. What else would they be doing? ::: 4. They played a role in falsifying a distress code; They were, at the very least, complicit in this, which makes them guilty in the eyes of the law. ::: 5. Logan and suicide; this scene is in Day_5_3:00am-4:00am. :: B. Since they don't speak, they don't belong in the category: Why not nominate the page for deletion then? :: – Blue Rook 02:20, 20 April 2007 (UTC)talk : True none of it is speculation, but none of it specifically pertains to these two people. All five points can be applied to Graem and Ron as well, not just these two. All of this information is sufficient on the pages for Graem and the conspiracy itself, with a mention and photo of these guys. Perhaps you'd feel more comfortable with a page something like "Sentox conspirators" and include all four of the Bluetooth Gang, but I think that'd work fine as a section of the conspiracy page. But giving these two their own page seems silly to me. And why would we nominate Unnamed terrorists for deletion simply because it excludes these two characters? I don't understand what you're saying there. --Proudhug 02:31, 20 April 2007 (UTC) :: That sounds like a perfect compromise to me (adding the pics and some of this info to the larger Sentox nerve gas conspiracy page). I'll shift it over soon. :: Oh, I wasn't referring to Unnamed terrorists when I mentioned deletion; I was referring to my 2-mystery-men page itself. In other words, I was directly asking Vinny2: why did you choose to redirect my page to a place where you yourself recognize it should not be redirected to, instead of just nominating my page for deletion? Crappy sentence, sorry about that. It was the end of my response.. I was getting tired :P – Blue Rook 03:10, 20 April 2007 (UTC)talk :::My original decision was wrong. I should have redirected it to Sentox nerve gas conspiracy isntead of Unnamed terrorists and I should have saved the data.Goodto see we're all on the same page now, though. --Vinny2 18:15, 20 April 2007 (UTC)